anti flag good or bad?

Sorry for your shyness, I however don't suffer from that particular peculiarity so to me they're crap along with a whole Saharan Desert worth of other crap music. Jaded? Maybe, but that's my own hang up to deal with which still doesn't change my opinion of them...

That's the thing though, as anarchists we long ago stopped acquiescing to mainstream liberal sensibilities, we aren't here to recruit or win votes so less radical lyrics are of absolutely no concern...

Not only did we listen to them before coming out of that womb, we were skating the inside (it was a perfect bubble) and set up a show at the hospital the next day with them

But seriously some of us were born at the same time as some of the people you mentioned and have been playing as long or longer than some of the bands you mentioned so keep in mind that not everyone here is going to share your generational perspective or respect the shenanigans these guys have pulled, remember to think that all of us put together now, span many generations, including many younger punks that would laugh at the notion of having discovered punk through some of the bands you've mentioned as great starters (and I only say that because of some of the crazy assed young power-violence fans that I know) So like I said in the post above....way too many assumptions.

 

Shyness? Because I made a factual statement, I'm shy? That's a ridiculous assumption. I don't see how someone can objectively argue that preference in music isn't subjective. Whether it's hip hop, punk, noise-core, ethnic/cultural music, none of these are objectively better than the rest. Obviously not everyone is going to like everything, but that's a matter of preference, not fact. Suggesting that I "suffer from the particular peculiarity" of acknowledging individual and cultural relativism is a considerably rude and condescending assumption.

In regards to appealing to the mainstream, that's open for a debate. To me, the idea of gradually "radicalizing" the average person is quite important. Don't we want more people to become radical/anarchists? A large-scale change in society for the better pretty much requires that. What's the point in just keeping our numbers the exact same that they are now? What's the point of bands having radical/anarchist/meaningful lyrics if the only people who are going to hear them are people who already believe in all of the same stuff? Should I stop lending Propagandhi CD's to my friends who show interest in punk music, and tell them to keep listening to AC/DC and blink-182 instead? I know a dozen or so people who've become increasingly political/aware/vegan and other cool things because of the bands I play in, the free literature my band sets up at shows, the CD's and books I've lent to people. These were all previously "regular" and "mainstream" people. I wish someone had done this to me sooner when I was younger.

I definitely did not say that everyone is going to share my opinion, that would be a false assumption. I merely shared the example that has introduced myself and numerous friends of mine to the punk/anarchist subculture. I definitely didn't exclusively say that people can only discover punk through accessible bands like Anti-Flag and Rise Against, but cases like these probably do happen in considerable numbers. If people are introduced to better bands even sooner, that's great.

That all being said, I respect that you've been around for a while, and probably listen to great music you've discovered over the course of your lifetime, and have perhaps become jaded about other styles of music as result. Clearly, we're coming from slightly difference backgrounds/perspectives, but who cares? We're both on the same side here now, isn't that the most important thing?

 

While I somewhat agree with you on the subjective musical taste thing, you have to concede that it's a fairly...passive(?)...response to a contrary opinion.

I would say you're arguing two different but related things here - one is that people need to be exposed to more radical views; another is that doing this should be progressive from point a) liberal to point b) radical/anarchist. I agree with the first part but not the second, no way. I was fairly politically ambiguous (somewhere left) until I read up on anarchism. I think people will either get it or they won't. I don't know, music didn't politicise me (though I do think that politics has influenced some of my tastes in music) so I would never try to politicise someone with music. I would understand from a musical perspective, that you might start with something easy to listen to before moving into something more extreme. But I would wonder why I'd start with Anti-Flag when I could start with Citizen Fish or Zounds.

 

How can someone only somewhat agree that preference in music is subjective? If I don't like certain artists/genres, I would say that I just personally don't care for the style, not that the music is crap. You may as well argue that certain forms of literature or food is factually the best for everyone. I'm afraid I don't entirely understand your comment about my statement being a passive response to a contrary opinion. Was I supposed to factually prove that my preference in music is the greatest? That would be ridiculous, there's no way any reasonable person can argue that. I was merely making the point that no music is factually better than other music. But anyways, this part is kind of deviating from the original topic.

Yes, people should be exposed to more radical views. It can be a gradual/progressive thing, but it doesn't have to. It really depends on the person's views/ideologies. For some people, radical views might make sense to them right off the bat. Other people may require more time. There's no absolute way to live or acquire a worldview, people have to find their own path on their own time. If some people pick up on anarchism over night and want to start smashing the state right away, that's cool. Some people will come to the similar conclusions/views after years of reading books/zines, watching documentaries and experiencing the world. I was definitely in the latter category. I just find that some people need to be eased into certain things gradually (again, depending on the views they already hold).

I also never stated that music should be the only way to politicize someone. It can be a great starting point though. When I was young (and apathetic and too occupied with playing video games and doing nothing productive), my mind was practically blown when I started listening to bands like Anti-Flag and Propagandhi, who in addition to having great lyrics, often included written essays in their albums, as well as books and documentaries they recommended. It would be a bad idea to exclusively acquire political views from a punk band, but they are great starting points. Not long after discovering such bands, I started reading books and caring more about the world. In short, of course music isn't the only way to politicize someone, but if it's the starting point for people (and I'd imagine a fair amount of people), then that's a good thing in my mind. Obviously, we all come from different backgrounds, upbringings and experiences. There are plenty of ways to get to the point we're all at now.

 

I can see how "somewhat" might be a bit unclear. What I meant is that musical taste is certainly subjective but there are degrees. Some music takes a bit more work or is in other ways more involving/stimulating than other types of music. I am in no way going to concede that my brother's regular listening of Bruno Mars or Green Day (his latest purchase along with Will.I.Am's album) is an equal choice to my listening to Nomeansno (as an example - because it's the band I'm listening to now). And yes, it's the same with literature. Reading 50 Shades of Grey is shite; reading Jonathan Coe is not shite. It's not a case of fact but that doesn't mean 'there's no point arguing about it.' That's what I meant by being a bit 'passive'. It was awkward wording on my part. All I was trying to argue was that where Mar said you were 'shy' it was because you didn't defend your view. Not with facts - that would indeed be daft - but with reason. Instead, you agreed to disagree.

The rest of the post I don't really need to comment on. I see what you're saying. It's true some bands do have some excellent stuff in their packaging (I really like the ranting in the inlay of Anti-Sect's In Darkness... There is no Choice album). However, when people just listen to music it's very easy to not heed the meaning. You need to immerse yourself in it. Which brings us back to the above point. Some music is shallow and some has depth. I'd argue that one is generally better than the other.

 

I also know that a 28 year old man arguing with his 13 year old brother could be seen as petty but I try to open his mind on everything and it is all in good fun, I promise. And he gives me far more abuse than I give him (the perils of being a vegan in a family of meat lovers...).

 

To be honest, never listened to em, some people have told me that since I like the whole crack rock steady thing I might like them, can anyone verify that?

 

im sorry man, dont mean to sound like a dick but theirs waayyy better stuff out their then leftover crack and shit

 

That's all subjective, I like how they mix Ska, Punk and Metal (my 3 fave genres) and I love their lyrical content too.

 

Even Anti-Flag...

Are in favor of Anarchy

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvP7Nb0r-hA[/video]

Heres the lyrics.

WANT AN ANARCHY - Anti-Flag

They call the U.S a free country well,
it's not it and you know it.
It's nothing but facism, capitalism, and fear.
They're lying and we're crying out to everyone here.
We can fight back, we can fight back!
They're got us bowing on our knees.
We can fight back, we can fight back!

We want an Anarchy!
We won't take, no we won't take!
We want an Anarchy!
We will fight back, we will fight.

Can't buy a beer, I can't buy cigarettes but,
I can die fighting for that freedom.
That freedom that they're taken away.
We can fight back, we can fight back!
The taxes - every time you buy a beer you fuckin' pay them.
We can fight back, we can fight back!
You give them all your money while you drink your life away.
We can fight back, we can fight back!

We want an Anarchy!
We won't take, no we won't take!
We want an Anarchy!
We will fight back, we will fight.

If we are all united, we can take back our lives.
While they stand divided, we can fight them and their laws.
If we get up off our knees, we can show them that we are people.
We can take back this "free" country, we can have an Anarchy!

We want an Anarchy!
We won't take, no we won't take!
We want an Anarchy!
We will fight back, we will fight

There is freedom for all people, they contradict this everyday.
We can fight back, we can fight back!
There are laws against the cubans, there are laws against the gays.
We can fight back, we can fight back!
There is freedom of religion, we can choose any of them all,
We can fight back, we can fight back!
But the christians rule this country and the priests are above the law.

We want an Anarchy!
We won't take, no we won't take!
We want an Anarchy!
We will fight back, we will fight.

 

Re: Even Anti-Flag...

and this song is from a split lp published in the year 1996...
guess maybe something changed since then, it's quite some time, isn't it?

 

Re: Even Anti-Flag...

Indeed. They are busier making fancy videos and ripping off From Ashes Rise's songs nowadays.

 

Re: Even Anti-Flag...

Never cared for Anti-Flag!

 

I like anti-flag with their lyrics and stances. and honestly i like some of their music too. die for your government is definitely their best album in my opinion and my favorite. as of them signing to a major label i know nothing about. or how much they charge for their shows. but i do know they covered a pussy riot song to raise awareness of their jailing and made t-shirts and stuff. and they did a video supporting animal rights and stuff. so i still like definitely.

 

ya there alright got me into punk, have nothing against the guys great message, my taste in music just evolved. if they had a show in my area id consider checkin it out if there wasnt anything better. but i love the casualties goin to be seein them next saturday in boston

 

With 12 pages of people bitching about supposidly or regardless, but i love anti-flag, the real lyrics, writting essays about there inspiration, going to afganastan with 9/11 victoms and relatives of people killed in 9/11 to meet afgans who lost wives husbands parents sibiling and children considered "collateral damage" and they resolved there differences realizing were all the same in death, they write songs you learn from rather than a 2cent piece of crap, they dont sell out and still have a huge following, and weather you like it or not they state there political stance against the powers that be, not as raw as sex pistols/the stooges/gg allin/or the germs but they are one of the best punk bands (top 25 area)

 

Sure, they are Nobel Peace Prize material.

 

compared to the EU, and Obama, yes!

 

And Ellen Johnson Sirleaf(defends law criminalizing homosexuality). They should give the prize to themselves next time.