Unity Through Chaos

Also to note, Anarchy = Order, not chaos.
Promoting chaos will only make us look bad.

Just thought I'd put that out there.

 

You're still RESPECTING power.

Power shouldn't be respected. It should be abhorred.

 

It's a (very) thin line. I can understand that Hitler had great charisma, but I still don't respect him.
What do respect about Charlie Manson anyway? The fact he manipulated young, and weak willed individuals into being his little servants in order to assassinate people? So you respect manipulation, power, control, slavery and murder?

Like I said, I can UNDERSTAND and ADMIT that he may have been influential to some people (typically through the use of doping them with hallucinogenic drugs) but I have no RESPECT for the man. Respect comes with envy, and if you envy that, I believe you'll find that you are in the wrong place here.

 

I have heard this line trotted out by so many young "rebels" now that it makes me sick to hear. Please don't use Hitler as a supporting argument. Are you familiar with Godwin's law? No? Please wiki it before you continue this line of argument! (although kudos must be afforded to you on making me invoke Godwin's law after only two posts!)

I notice that when people use the [obscenely tired] "Hitler was a great leader blah blah blah" line, or the "Manson is my hero blah blah blah" line, it is usually to avoid having to make interesting conversation and is sometimes presented as interesting content in lieu of something worth talking about. Don't be afraid to actually talk about the things on your mind here. We prefer it when issues are raised that can be discussed creatively, rather than having to groan through excuses for conversation like that.

If you used the Manson thing to break the ice, congratulations; it worked. However, if you thought you would shock anyone? Not happening.

 

And for fuck's sake, the man has a swastika carved into his forehead.

I'm starting to think you just like forehead scarification.
(Reference to Harry Potter, just in case no one caught that)

 

You see, the men you seem to respect might not have had the same impact on the people they influenced if the socio-economic environment (on their respective times) hadn't set the ground for their words to be more persuasive. Also like JesusCrust said Manson just probably doped all those people, kinda hard to disagree when you're that high.

 

I got it. Nicely played.

 

I'd say respect Martin Luther King, or many an anarchist philosopher, or anybody else that does general "good" with their charisma and influential power. Caeser Chavez, etc. Look at the power that man (MLK) had. The influence amongst people, and all for a good cause.

 

And I'd like to elaborate on this a little also. (Sorry if you feel that I'm picking on you, I am but I'm not, if that makes any sense.) While you are correct, in my opinion at least, I feel the need to separate things like direct action, protests, etc. from "chaos." Sure a full scale revolution may come off as chaos, but when I think of chaos, I think of mindless relentless violence and disruption for no sole purpose. I'd also like to point out that whilst this structured, and for the irony, "ordered" chaos many be a means of sparking, and maintaining a revolution, I'd hate for people to get confused, and believe this "chaos" will continue on in a post-revolutionary society. I think one of the biggest setbacks to anarchism is the public idea of it being nothing more than "chaos and disorder" and if people continue perpetuating this stereotype, you can bet we will continue struggling for public support. One must teach that anarchism is peaceful, organized yet autonomous, and ordered, although to achieve this society, we'll have to fight to emancipate ourselves from the chains that currently bind us. People need to realize the difference of how to achieve, and once achieved, and contrary to popular belief, we're not just some violent, blood thirsty, moral-less, bored, angst y teenagers, bent on having perpetual chaos.

 

Also real quick, just so you know, Converse is now owned by Nike, which promotes HORRIBLE working conditions for their employee's.
Bummed me out, because I really like me a nice pair of high tops, but I refuse to support Nike. :/

 

Moreover, social chaos, in of itself, won't lead to anarchism. Just look at, say, the Democratic Republic of Congo.
The ability to replace Capitalism, and hierarchical social relationships more generally, with anarchistic forms of social organisation following massive social uprisings (the 'revolutionary situation' or whatever you wanna call it) is equally as important as destroying capitalist society. If anything, this is more difficult, thus we fall back to the old adage:
'organise, organise, organise!'

 

well, I guess you guys have more or less overrunned/stomped this very young, probably uninformed new member.

and at MissMurder: no one here wants to discriminate you, we're just telling you our points of view/some facts on the information you've written down about you...

(not that anyone here gets depressed and just leaves 'cause feeling discriminated...)

 

Well, in my case I thought I had made a friend in here... it seems I was wrong though, and after failure after failure trying to get along with anarchists (here and other places and in real life as well) perhaps I too should reconsider the anarchist path, after all it is a community effort but if I can't seem to get along with no one then what's the point.

At least MissMurder got some people trying to talk about anarchism to her... who knows she might end up being part of it.

 

Wait, what happened?

 

It's just that my attempts to get along with local anarchists (at least on a virtual context) hasn't been successful at all and before that I saw myself as an individual anarchist, now I know that such a thing is just not possible since Anarchism is a community effort and therefore an anarchist who does not interact with others is like a wheel without the rest of the car. Perhaps I was being too arrogant and fucked it up, but even if I didn't I'm really having a hard time trying to conceive the idea of connecting with people who support mindless destruction of property (which will just make public workers work more hours fixing all the signs, windows and stuff some anarkids broke) or who idolize some guy who killed himself by accident or whom are just violent for the sake of it.

I'm really not sure what to do... but it'd be better to continue this elsewhere or in PM so to not deviate this topic any more.

 

Chilean Anarchists have a bit of a reputation for being more insurrectionist than elsewhere anywayz...
I hardly think you should leave cos we got different views on property damage, which is obviously a political difference, rather than personal antagonism. Maybe you may find it more worthwhile to address people's opinions inre the 'Bombings Case' by starting a discussion thread, rather than leaving?

Moreover, regardless of yr characterisation of property destruction as 'mindless', to condense the entire Chilean anarchist milieu into a group of bomb throwers ignores the less 'spectacular' work of groups such the Sin(a)psis film collective, as the first example that comes to my mind...

 

Well it's just that it pisses me off to see that much useless, unproductive violence when those kids could be doing something more productive with their lives, I think they take the "destroy is creating" thing way too fucking literally and end up thinking they have to destroy everything to start over. Like they would help to rebuild the world after bringing it down, yeah sure.

But what can I do here in my country if I'm all alone? It is quite frustrating to talk to people about anarchism without being looked down on or laughed at.

And about sin[a]psis... I've heard of them but sadly haven't been able to view any of their material... nor do I know how to contact them at all. Thanks for the info though.

 

viewtopic.php?f=66&t=4939
or just type in 'sin(a)psis' into youtube
not sure on contact details but, maybe via: http://www.facebook.com/VideoRevistaSinapsis ?

also, http://www.ourwar.org/ is a good media collective (well excellent for me cos in english...)

 

I'll be damned! That's a lot of information and links good sir!! Thanks a lot!! .