Fundamental question

Want me to bring arguments ? Fine. But then stop repeating over and over again that i refuse to answer you or that i'm avoiding the debate.

Ok well i thought you went back to PE and didn't want to discuss anymore. Sorry if it isn't the case.

But it's not us who "raised the bar" first. We wanted to keep this whole debate calm and polite, but it's PE peoples who started talking shit and insulting us

Uhm, who's raising the bar now ?

Facts are that a BIG majority of the scene doesn't mind other peoples sharing their stuff, with or without authorization

You're here to back up PE's positions and repeat what have been said many times and what they have been telling us since a while, which is exactly the same.

don't wonder why you are being welcomed this way... Just imagine how peoples would react if anarcho-punk.net members started joigning PE to say our points of views are better than their's and start telling Dan how he should manage his label....
I bet after not even 24hours we would be censored and banned, plus all the insults comming with

Yes you are. I don't see any differences between your ideas and his.

That's not what i said. I didn't talk about insults.

here is exactly what i said:

"YOU have chosen to register here only to confront and critize us and find only negative aspects."

Which is the truth

Profane Existence does. They want us to follow the same rules and laws that disney want.

No it's not. Like my example with reusing anarchist's writtings. Either you support it and don't ask peoples to ask authorization because you think this work should be in the public domain and owned by everyone's (following anarchist principles), or either you simply believe in private propriety and don't want to share.

It is obvious that Profane Existence is trying to hide their total opposition to file sharing behind the fact "you didn't ask first, and that's the only reason we oppose to it". 90% of the peoples backing this argument up is peoples that are already against file sharing. Bands who are willing to share their stuff for free but who will also make a big drama if we didn't ask their permission first are very very rare.

Hahaha yeah right. Who are you to judge the "level of my anarchism" ?

All of you guys are only punks and crustys, stop teaching me lessons. I've probably done more for the anarchist cause in a single week than most of the morons insulting me, in their whole life. Like i said punk is all secondary.

Oh my god.... It's like the 10th time i repeat it

I debated like 20 pages of constructive discussion, i got sick of being insulted and reading childish comments.

Dude, how the fuck would you react if you debate 20 pages with me here and everytime i just ignore your arguments and keep calling you names and insulting you ???
Would you stay ??? Would you keep debating with me ???

No. So stop saying i don't want to debate, YOU WOULD DO EXACTLY THE SAME GODDAMNIT.

Yeah i understand you dude, it's like the other day when i didn't have the time to answer your big posts and you said you were disappointed....
i was too busy going at my local punk disc store and stealing CD's !!! Damn man, i stole a dozen of CD from this local DIY label, and then i went to the anarchist library and stole a couple of books and a t-shirt....

It's not me who brought this argument. It's not me who make assumptions and try to quote Kropotkin to tell peoples how he would have reacted in the case of file sharing.

Go tell what you just said to your friends over Profane Existence board.

No i say peoples who defend capitalist values like private proprety and asking for permission for something that should be free and in the public domain are not anarchist, in the exception of a few rare cases.
If i'm stupid, then so are the majority of the anarchists for the last 2 centuries and their main thinkers.

That's not what i said. Please stop deforming everything i say. or quote where explicitly i said "you are not allowed to give your opinion here".

I am only showing the contradictions in your load of bullshit.

You pretend to have the right to tell us what to do and how we should do it, but when we talk about Profane Existence all of you keep saying "it's dan's business" blah blah "dan does it the way he want it" blah blah "it's not your business" blah blah.....

How can you pretend to have the right of telling us to do when you refuse this right to the peoples doing the same towards Profane Existence

It's exactly what Profane Existence are doing. They tell us how real anarchist should think and act

To quote Dan PE's EXACT words when he first came here, his signature was saying "real anarchists don't steal from the bands".
That's a double affirmation. a) collectivist anarchists denying private proprety are fake anarchists and b) following anarchist values file sharing is stealing

So once again, WHO brought this debate ? It's not us "dictated proper anarchist behavior that we should follow"

MY POST WAS A COUNTER-ARGUMENT, NOT AN ARGUMENT.

It's not me who brought kropotkin in this whole story. Go tell your fucking lessons to your friends at profane existence.

You say a lot of stuff to us but obviously this doesnt apply to your friends @ PE and to Dan

But yes, anarcho-punk is propaganda and it's the same thing as written propaganda. Or are you denying the fact that the main objective of anarcho-punk is supposed to be to pass a message through the lyrics ??

God damnit, i'm so sick of repeating myself, this is a fucking stupid debate.

Did you ever built a website ? did you ever try to make a big archive like this one ? No? Just shut your fucking mouth up then

You have no idea how much work it is, how hard it is, how much money, how long it takes. JUST SHUT UP. You never done anything like that. You are just talking shit and saying DO THIS DO THAT but don't count on me for it. WHAT A FUCKING GOOD ANARCHIST SPIRIT !!! WOW!

Look at http://www.resistance.tk www.pirate-punk.net and www.QuebecUnderground.net
Do you see lyrics? biographys? interviews? websites? pictures? videos?
YES? THEN SHUT UP GODDAMNIT

Do you know a better site than the 3 sites i just gave to you? NO ?

We can do it. We will do it.

Keep pretending i don't care about spreading a message when i own a fucking anarchist library, a webzine with thousands of articles, a documentary forum, encyclopedias, etc..... THIS IS RIDICULOUS

You're here, talking shit and telling us to build rome in 2 days BUT YOU NEVER ACHEIVED ANYTHING LIKE THAT AND HAVE NO IDEA HOW MUCH EFFORT IT IS

If we don't care about the message just because we don't have the lyrics yet then i guess the totality of the fucking blogs on internet doesn't care about the message neither. DO YOU KNOW A BIG DOWNLOAD WEBSITE WITH TONS OF LYRICS ? NO.

If we're stupid because of that then the whole fucking punk scene is because no one built the idealist website you are dreaming about.

That's exactly the shitty counter-revolutionnary ideas of yours i was talking about.

"do this, do that, you should do it this way, no no it's not correct you should do it another way" and then "oh well i'll come back in 6 months to see how hard you guys worked so i can be benefit of it"

You want great projects to be built while you sit on your lazy ass telling peoples what to do without getting involved.

THAT'S STUPID. Don't teach us lessons after writting stupid sentences like that.

And on top of all, we don't owe you anything.

Yeah right, more assumptions please. This is really objective.

Of course i'm fucking rich blah blah.... You are ridiculous.

I'm unemployed and i never worked i live in a shitty appartement and don't even have a car, who do you think i am ??

And dude, fuck you. I can't find anything else to reply to these assumptions. Why do you say i don't want to pay for records ?

You say you are are pro-file-sharing but you just admitted that to you, file sharers are peoples who doesn't want to pay for records and could afford to.

You're seem to pretend i'm greedy and don't want to contribute to "the cause". Dude, you don't know me. I'm not going to list everything i did for the scene and for the anarchist cause like i had to do on PE to get credibility. I don't care. Think what you want. You don't even have an idea how much money i wasted for punk/anarchist projects (i'm not talking about my websites which is already a lot of money spent).


If all i want is to get records for free then all you guys want is to MAKE A LIVING OUT OF PUNK ROCK.

 

The facts are still the same but YOU GUYS chose to ignore these arguments and hide between the argument of asking permission first.:

- If we're going to contact the bands the ask their permission it should be done in a fair way, meaning the bands speaking japenese should have the same percentage of chances of being contacted than an english-speaking bands.
- This work involve days and days of work by multiple peoples speaking over 20 different languages.
- A big percentage of the bands on this website have broke up or there is just no way of contacting them. Once again, this is not fair.
- Another issue you idealist peoples forget is that A LOT OF BANDS signed contract with labels, some are forced to sign with organisations like the SACEM (look on wikipedia). A lot of these bands WOULD WANT to share their stuff for free. They aren't against file sharing and would never ask someone to remove their stuff. BUT IF THEY GIVE US THE AUTHORISATION TO SHARE THEIR STUFF this means they just got themselves in trouble because the SACEM or any other organisations they signed with CAN SUE THEM. This is a frequent issue we see VERY OFTEN. Let's just take our compilations for examples, many band sent us songs and wanted us to share them for free but they realized because of some legal contract they could get in trouble so we they can't ALLOW us. These bands will let you share their stuff but if you ask them they CAN'T give you the authorization.

And on top of all, if we're doing SO MUCH harm to a band, then obviously they will hear about us. How could we make a band's sales lower drastically without them noticing where it comes from ? And once they hear about us (most already have) they know how they can remove their stuff.

There are millions of blogs sharing the same stuff, a majority of them don't even allow the bands and labels to remove their stuff. AND NO ONE OF YOU MAKE A DRAMA ABOUT THAT. I don't see the complainters saying a damn word about that.

Same thing for peoples selling t-shirts and merch without authorization. See my topic about that. If peoples like PE attacked the real problem it would be much more progressive and would solve the problem of money. Another fact that you guys ignore, you just stick on the damn authorization story.

So after all, capitalism is fucking cool eh'. Glad it's here for us when we need it, eh? What would we do without private proprety and our "moral right" owning intellectual proprety

 

Dude i'm not imposing anything, is it me that tell profane existence how they should act or is it them that tell us how to act ??

They asked me to explain why we work this way so here it is. how the fuck am i imposing anything?

These views seems to represent the majority of the forum. And don't forget that this is a collective forum with collective management, so if you want to change something then go for it.....

But again all my arguments are ignored...

WHO will spend all this time to contact the bands ? YOU ?

We need peoples willing to waste at least 2 weeks of their time, and we need 20 of those peoples speaking 20 different languages.

Once you guys find the mods we need to do this work then maybe we can talk about contacting the bands

OHHHH WAITTT.... i forgot.... You want us to do all the job while you sit here and watch.... Like your friend said, he will come back in 6 months to see how we worked, without doing a single thing.

With Profane Existence we don't solve the problems by talking or explaining ourselves, we solve the problems by listening to them without questionning and following all of their ideas without saying a damn word. That's the only way they can be happy.

Not even talking you guys also want us to create this encyclopedia with bios and lyrics which is like another 2 months of work !!!

Everyone tell us what to do, no one want to participate, and then you say we ignore what you say !!!


this debate is getting more and more ridiculous.

It's not the real issue, it's just because they have chosen to ignore all the other issues.

 

??????

hahahah dude wtf the list of the moderators are available to public

if you took the time to search maybe you wouldn't need to think there is a big conspiration to hide the number of mods
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1696

I never tryed to hide anything, this is getting more and more ridiculous...

Maybe bring some arguments instead of saying random accusations without any fundment ?

I didn't take a SINGLE action as a moderator on this forum since the begginning. Wow what a fucking big power trip, i'm a dictator!

Listen. On this forum the members chose the "rules" of the forum, they chose the moderators, they chose the way how it works, they decide EVERYTHING.... How the hell do you want us to give less power to the mods ? The mods are only here to apply what the community wants !

If you're so much concerned about mods abusing their power, then go critize the dictators over Profane Existence... Do you see any equality and auto management over there ? I think we are managing anarcho-punk.net way more in the true values of anarchism



And as for "instantlybent" well eh, i guess he crashed his porshe again.

 

Exactly, because the main objective should be propaganda and activism, just like both of the sides of this fight are doing.

And i agree with that. I was the first who wanted to avoid this whole debate, but it looks like we are forced...