Fundamental question

i dont agree with that decision either (if you read my post in the other thread youd have already known that), if for no other reason than it takes away ungovernables voice (however much i or dan or whever does or doesnt gree with him (or her?)) and not only do i feel like theyre entitled to it, i also feel like it added fuel to the fire here and gave you guys another thing to be pissed off about and thus prolonged this unfortunate episode. but one difference is that i have been insulting to no one here and i refuse to do so. ungovernables comments to me since i started posting here havent been that bad i guess (they havent out-and-out called me dirty names, for instance), but theyve been pretty rude, condescending, assumptive, evasive and rather poorly thought out. again, if you create a public forum dont be surprised when you are asked to justify your own existence.

for ungovernable, again, you never answered any of my questions and im under the impression that you do host another website that does have torrents of my old band, so why am i not entitled to a discussion? because once again, i am not against file sharing. you said "bands should come to you and share what they felt about it". well, here i am, and youre not treating me seriously. so that leads me to conclude that your statement was bullshit, that you ARENT communicating with bands. you could mend some fences here but you have such a chip on your shoulder that you stubbornly refuse. and sure, dont take insults, i wouldnt either. BUT I DIDNT INSULT YOU, and again, IM NOT DAN. so stop hiding behind that, its getting you nowhere.

i wont, however, be surprised if i do get banned or this thread gets locked. but i WONT stoop to childish name calling, so give me real responses or ban me in blatant disregard to what youve already said about your moral high ground. i work at home and have a lot of time on my hands.

as for this lawsuit. im genuinely sorry to hear about it, that sucks. i honestly, again for maybe the 7th or 8th time, respect the effort, and wouldnt have a clue how to do it myself. but i never claimed you "arent diy" and in fact repeatedly complimented your work here. SO THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS. and youve sidestepped the issue again....

 

oh, and i missed this one. again, calling me dirty names wont make me go away. YOY INDEXED MY BAND. THEN YOU INVITED BANDS TO CONTACT YOU. then i did so. and totally in the spirit of what YOU are doing. i said "i support filesharing". i took your tantrumish little tirades on the chin, because clearly your pride has been hurt. but dont lash out at me, i didnt do it. and frankly theoldpunks arguements make a lot more sense to me so far than yours, and fairly free of ad hominem retorts as well, even though you said, what was it, "fuck you grandpa" to him. and i never implied you made a profit; you said "we get nothing" and i showed that to not be entirely true- you get donations that are consequently reinvested into your project to cover your expenses WHICH IS THE SAME THING THAT HAPPENS WHEN SOMEBODY BUYS MY BANDS ALBUM. see, we're not so different after all! and to be fair im sure youve downloaded the bulk of the material here yourself, being a fan too(im assuming).
as for dan, i defended him here as a person, and defended his general motivations, because they deserve defending. i DIDNT defend everything hes ever done nor did defend his actions with you. i DO know that your personal and unfortunate misunderstanding notwithstanding, hes fundementally a good guy whos doing what he think is best for "the scene" if you want to call it that.

 

okay, fair enuf, i made an assumption, perhaps an unfair one. but i based it on the FACT that again, ive come here with good intentions and have said nothing insulting or unfair and youve reacted in a fashion (to ME, not any other person here or otherwise) that i found to be unreasonable and incredibly reactionary, especially since, essentially, im doing EXACTLY WHAT YOUVE BEEN CLAIMING BAND MEMBERS ARE SUPPOSED TO DO in regards to your torrents; talk to you directly about it. are you so unused to being challenged that this is how you react? and you insult dan and pe? youre doing exactly what you criticise him/"them" for doing and i challenge anyone here to REALLY read what has been written by me and you in both this thread and the other one and objectively tell me that youre being more reasonable than me.
but contrary to what you may want to believe its pretty rare that people get banned from the pe board (by the way ive been on it for about 6 years and ive seen maybe 10 people get banned?). and when they do its supposed to be for expressing abusive, sexist, homophobic or racist views (and generally is). and there are actually lots of mods there (at least 10) so no, its not a "dictatorship" (although i must admit your excessive use of wildly over-the-top terminology has made me chuckle more than once throughout the course of this "discussion"). anyways your assertions are kinda exaggerated and for the most part unfounded. for instance, there was a HUGE debate about a BIG and PERSONAL conflict between dan and another band whos name i wont mention here on that board- dan was furious with them and it was actually way more dramatic than this one- i took their side more or less, and he didnt ban me. were actually still quite good friends. and ive had arguements with people HES friends with on the board.
look, what you really should do is admit there are two sides to this, think about constructive criticisms, offer your own and go only upwards from there. this is the reason i came here in the first place.

 

1- your language has certainly been unneccesarily confrontational, anyone can see that.
2- i dont care what happened there, this is here and now so stop hiding behind that.
3- I AM NOT, FOR THE 12TH TIME, AGAINST FILESHARING. I AM FOR FILESHARING, JUST RESPECTFUL FILESHARING WITHIN OUR COMMON COMMUNITY.
4- your pe thread was locked because it got out of hand on both sides, not because you are a persecuted victim.
5- im not defending pes administrative structure, nor am i unquestioningly supporting dan.
6- i DO accept that people have different visions of file sharing. perhaps i need to say it again, i am not against file sharing. why do you think i came here? i know you may assume that its because of your charm..... not so.
7- you claimed earlier that you are involved in quebec underground. if that is in fact not true i stand corrected on that point. but thats a weak way out of this debate for you and i think you know it.
8- why do you feel youre entitled to review pes finances? thats absurd. its not your business. if you for some reason dont believe dan dont give him your money.
9- again, i accept different visions of file sharing. YOU need to accept that bands who MADE the fucking music in the first place should have a say in how its done. even a child could understand this logic.

and with that said, im off to do donuts in my porche whilst lighting cigars with 100$ bills. see you tommorrow though!

 

Anyone can see that you don't back your arguments with facts, my band Diatribe is on this site and I'm honored for the opportunity for younger punks to be able to listen to roots D-beat......for free. As far as PE's finances its called transperancy, they claim to be anarchists what have they got to hide? And I'm sorry to say you have a bad case of 'the last word'. Also you claim to be all sweetnes and light, "I'm not insulting anybody "etc etc. then you say "Even a child could understand this logic" meaning what? If we don't agree were even more juvenile than children? Thats insulting...your insulting. Hey now Profane Existance and Metallica can join in the fight against illegal downloads and be unstoppable together.

 

what the hell i thought this was a topic of theft
and ungovernable you were just ranting in another topic about PE of how downloads werent theft because were trying to spread the music and punkrock isnt a job..

alright so if you have property/capital ie. beer, belongings, food, earned from your hard days work; its anarchist for people to steal from you? and that makes it okay? just because your in a better position in life? what? what happened to independence?

 

ok thanks.
thanks for not being a condesending dick.

 

I think you misunderstood Chesticles, he was using that quote to illustrate how its wrong to steal, even among anarchists

 

He went back and gave a report to PE about what a jerk you were to him....read it for yourself. Honestly Ungovernable let it go, these guys are never gonna be happy no matter what you do... you read his rediculous grandiose statements about his "journey" through punk rock land. How we dont understand because the majority of people on PE are either in bands or promoting or running DIY labels and were just a bunch of hicks who don't know better. Fuck'em. I still love them for being fellow punks but as far as their politics I've lost a lot of respect for them and their VIEW$.

 

a "pussy". i see. the bar is raised once again by mr ungovernable.

what i wrote at pe for the record (directly cut and pasted):

"...ive logged onto ap.net and tried to engage in a constructive conversation with them. some of them are being reasonable and there ARE cool things about their forum (especially multi-lingual forums in greek, russian, french, german, quite a few other languages as well). i cant say that "ungovernable" has been forthcoming with any real dialog as of yet but perhaps some of you would find the thread interesting (but please dont come to troll if you dont want them to do so here). they are a collection of people and only the more vocal seem to have come here. anyway, i feel like this whole thing has gotten super petty and it makes me sad ......"

youre, well, stupid if you see that as me talking shit about ap.net.

 

.... meaning my logic is very simple. if you use something someone made, its polite to ask first, particularly in a small community like this. and because your band is okay with it everybody is? your logic is somehow more clear than mine? because that doesnt make any sense. otherwise if my language was offensive to you i apologize, but much shittier language hasw been used against me and others (besides dan) at pe.

and its funny that even though ive repeatedly said im for filesharing and am not dan or speaking for pe that you guys keep lumping me in with that arguement. im clearly not taking the same stance as dan, if youd stop being assumptive and reactionary youd see that.

 

1- i have repeatedly and sincerely complimented your work and forums during this discussion. you have repeatedly ommitted this fact, and it nullifies your whole arguement of me coming here to insult you.
2- punk doesnt run by the same ethos as disney or the "majors", nor should it (rather obvious?) so thats a pretty weak comparison. also its an entirely different act altogether to take an unliscensed copy of "the lion king" as opposed to the "police bastard" ep.
3- "either youre for or against" anything is a very simplistic way of looking at almost any issue, with obvious exceptions. im FOR shoplifting SOMETIMES in a certain context for example, and against it in others.
4- i dont think dan or pe really needs to be justified through the lens of your quasi-anarchist rhetoric. BUT if you had a personal dispute with him, thats too bad. its also too bad that youve let your insulted ego cloud your ability to have a constructive discussion about this with anyone else.

also sorry i forgot to enter this discussion yesterday. crashed the porsche, spent the whole day on the phone with my insurance people.... what a headache.