Loading...
Welcome to Anarcho-Punk.net community ! Please register or login to participate in the forums.   Ⓐ//Ⓔ

Liking a band means agreeing with their beliefs?

Discussion in 'Music, punk scene & subcultures' started by trevor9849, Feb 9, 2011.

  1. RDL 9000

    RDL 9000 New Member New Member


    4

    0

    0

    Nov 10, 2011
     
    I listen to music that sounds good to me and makes me want to dance. The fact that the majority of the music I listen to is associated with this culture and anti-government beliefs is simply a result of time and my everchanging opinions. And saying that, i can conclude that no one sticks to their beliefs permanently and if they say that they do, they are basing their opinions off of their music. It shoulc be the other way around if you regard your opinions as incredibly important. :beer:
     
  2. KARRION

    KARRION Member Forum Member


    14

    0

    0

    Nov 8, 2011
     
    For the people that don't like bands based on their beliefs do you disassociate from people that have different beliefs, ie friends, family, co-workers, classmates?
     
  3. nike

    nike Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    439

    0

    6

    Jun 19, 2011
     
    dunno, the term "believe" in context with a political attitude sounds strange to me, for my part i don't "believe" in anarcho-collectivism or punk, i try to live according to my thoughts and ideas as far as possible, because i know self-management and mutual cooperation with others are the most promising way to get things right once and for all - and i still question this daily...
    "to believe" means not to know for sure and i guess religion and it's practice are the worst examples how to mess up things if one measures reality with illusions to end up in nowherelands nightmare.
    music is self expression first - this isn't changed by todays pop- and entertainment biz, even if it's commercialised and degraded to "style" and worst case: maybe even to an attitude on sale only to serve the needs of the marginalised and indifferent consumers looking for an public image to connect to others.
    frustrated anarkids doin' anarchy because DK sounds good to them and their mates... well, we have to live with that, but it doesn't mean this kind of peer arbitrariness should go uncritisized - and in the extremes: thats what this thread is for...
    i don't think it makes sense to do the agit-prop, trying to get people into anarchism via the music, because each and everyone has to make the usual real-life-experience and find out for her-/himself how to deal with that on a day-to-day basis, minimum requirement: a well backed up and knowledgeable point of view on things happening - and you can't impart that in a punk song, not even in a whole album, even if you mean it - see crass, clash or DK for an example.
    you can express yourself and your attitude to others with the understanding about what you're talking about - everything else runs the risk of ending up in the consumers collection.
    i still work on the recent thread about "punk love songs" and the dire difficulties we had to find at least a handful... i think thats an important thing bands should work on - how one sided and limited/frozen in frustration is the whole genre?
    i'm very picky with anarcho-punk, i can't relate to everything just because theres an :a: on the cover, i'm still struggling with d-beats, i like ethnic music (not the world muzak somethings), tango/dancing too, recently i started flamenco and jota again, i like some decent pop and new wave just for entertainment and background noise. some time before i rediscovered garage punk and i'm still in awe about the impact of some of the completely a-political lyrics just describing a single aspect of life brilliantly - thus bringing back the politix without a fucking preacher stance...
    most of the time i'm kinda easy socialiser, style and music interest aren't first priority, really important is how people get along with me and vice versa.
    back in my days inna boarding school i went along with my "disco" classmates and friends quite well, they were doing their thing, i was doing mine and some bad jokes about their dramas too, but i just kept sticking with the people around me and it became quite interesting when some of them started their own personal mutation out of the mainstream. sometimes they shared a lot of my favs, but most of the time just doing theirs, fine multitude of points of view far off the disco.
    my recent co-workers weren't that interested in politics, not to mention far from being anarchists, but we managed our shitty job and some extras besides the bosses attention quite well, as soon as they accepted me as a co-worker just doing her job without asking for a bosses' favour at their expense (i was the youngest, educational most qualified...) - their muscial taste was mostly horrible and their consumers stance sometimes abysmally - but we managed to talk about things from one adult person to the other adult - thats fine with me and it worked the way it should.
    my absolute limit:
    fascists, misanthropes and idiots, especially those selling their shit to their kind of non-persons, buying it without a second thought or the slightest trace of questioning - no chance for them!
     
  4. vAsSiLy77

    vAsSiLy77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


    1,816

    1

    15

    Jun 21, 2010
     
    i don't see it that strict/hard, thanks to the pop-biz it's very easy to grow up completely occupied with the mass production of love songs and stylish lies to live in, all that stuff covering up the not so nice here and now - until one wakes up one morning and finds her/himself being a dragged down by factual constraints adult with better things to do than making up ones mind.
    so it doesn't hurt to lay out the limewire, maybe it's not "effective" and in some rare cases quite boring or almost sectarian (slime, hass, betonwelt - the bands names speak for themself), but usually it doesn't do much damage...
    and there is not only anarkids coming up, even if they may be a majority never reading a book or getting practically behind the circle A - some still manage fine and backup their personal opposition, some rare marvels manage even without much theoretical learning - some of the poles and russians around here or the spanish comrades for example make good for whole legions of anarkids and trendsetters.
    following your expression-theory: people sing about what they see and feel - and anarcho-punks have the tendency to see with open eyes - so the stuff to sing about isn't that nice at all - bad side of realities...
    i do see a problem in the fact that we still lack the real-life alternatives, the constructive sides of life to sing about - or in respect to bands like Adelit@s or a few others - a recollection of the tradition and history of the working and fighting struggle we have - and the inspiration and encouragement we can take from that.
    phenomena like them comrades recently going to confrontation on the street and singing their fav partizan song? - it made them almost instoppable... talk about fighting spirits...
    and i guess yours writing me a song about a fine day living in a collective for birthday, Nike Mihailowna?
     
  5. nike

    nike Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    439

    0

    6

    Jun 19, 2011
     
    doesn't helps much outside the around here or spain - who's uncool "working class" in the u.s., large parts of france or the benelux - recent examples for a more than obvious proof?
    so what's the use of expressing a tradition of class struggle - if there's no class at all?
    (and thats the euphemistic view, because it's sunday...)
    see above - how many live the way they live, see the things they see, experience the daily struggle...
    how many want that inspiration and encouragement? okay, those below want it
    and it makes a fine living amongst them, so i'll write a song about it, but i'll skip the birthday part, ageless snake of the history of the working class...
     
  6. Derek Danger

    Derek Danger Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    433

    1

    0

    Jan 29, 2010
     
    Get off your soap box, rap is as valid a form of music as any other, and often made by talented, thoughtful individuals. Punk is also quite often shallow, soulless garbage with nothing to say and no interesting way of saying it. I'd say about as often for each.
     
  7. t-bag

    t-bag Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    112

    3

    0

    Oct 24, 2009
     
    As long as the music is not promoting Racism, Sexism or other forms of discrimination then i have no issue with it.
     
  8. brokenalien

    brokenalien New Member New Member


    1

    0

    0

    Apr 25, 2012
     
    English is not my native language and my country hasn't had any punk bands yet. So I have to listen to English punk songs because it's the language that I've known best beside my native one. Most of punk songs' lyrics I've listened to don't use simple English (because it mostly is about politics) so I can't understand the whole message in a song that the band wants us to know (just rarely some easy-understanding line). So I guess I don't agree or disagree with their beliefs.
     
  9. grinding hault

    grinding hault Experienced Member Experienced member


    57

    0

    0

    Jan 4, 2012
     
    you don't have to agree with a bands politics or beliefs to appreciate what they create.

    I listen to a lot of power electronics which is pretty much indistinguishable from white power electronics. therefore any given harsh noise group may or may not be nazis. I just assume that they aren't. It really sucks that nazis are into it too because you can get your ass beat in certain places for playing the wrong type of power electronics because people associate it with nazis. But I still love my harsh noise.

    I'm also not straight edge but I love gorilla biscuits and minor threat. :beer:
     
  10. Ninjawizard

    Ninjawizard Member New Member


    8

    0

    0

    Apr 30, 2012
     
    Ok I was lurking and decided to join just to add my 2 cents.

    1. I listen to Dropdead and Crass and it never turned me into a vegan/vegetarian/or an anarcho communist.
    2. Someone with their own mind isn't going to be turned into something by listening to some songs.
    3. I remember some Christian tv show featuring christian metal bands in the 90's where they gave a similar argument that there are similar sounding bands with a Christian message to listen to as an alternative to the evil stuff. Somehow those bands were a weak substitute for Slayer and Deicide just as Anarchists black metal bands are no substitute for Burzum.
    4. Dropdead were dumb enough to take Anal cunt seriously enough to want to fight them. I mean it's a joke band with joke lyrics. The singer was a drug addict who wrote a song about how anyone who didn't like the Village People was gay. The only people that ever took them seriously were the ultra p.c. types looking to be offended (because it's their job ya know).
    5. Early Skrewdriver was some of the best punk ever. The rest of there stuff is hit and miss. You can actually listen to something with a different perspective without being brainwashed. That is if you have a strong mind. You don't have to constantly only put things in your mind that fit the dogma you want to indoctrinate yourself with. You can actually look at all perspectives, read all arguments from all sides and challenge your own belief system. I bet some of you are afraid to take in any opposing political viewpoints for fear that your weak minds will be polluted. It doesn't make you apolitical or apathetic either.
    6. As Aleister Crowley said "art has nothing to do with morality". Some horrible people have made some great music, movies (Woody Allen and Roman Polanski come to mind, better burn your Rosmary's baby DVDs).
    7. You can indeed be an antifascist in the sense of being against actual Fascist regimes, political parties, genocides, etc without making yourself a puritan over music or even ideas. As ideas are never the problem. Loosing perspective and forgetting the counter arguments for harmful ideas is what causes people to follow insane ideologies.
    8. Since Stalin, Lenin, Mao were also mass murderers you should make sure to rid your collections of any bands with Communist members.
    9. As Serius Black said in Harry Potter "The world isn't divided into good people and Death Eaters"
    10. I have a feeling from the levels of dogma and zealotry here that a lot of you are teenagers. It's normal to jump into a cause at a young age and need to believe in it one hundred percent. This is how most extremists are born from Nazis to the Islamists willing to die for their cause. You will grow into more rational thoughts. Hopefully
    Can we listen to Wagner?
     
  11. punkmar77

    punkmar77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


    5,737

    203

    718

    Nov 13, 2009
     United States
    :lmao: What color is the sun in your world?
     
  12. crustybeckham

    crustybeckham Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member


    358

    4

    13

    Jan 22, 2012
     
    Do you listen to any punk at all? Are you actually drawing a comparison between Nazis and Islamists (whatever these two terms might mean for you) and "a lot of us teenagers on this board"?

    Anyway, thank you for protecting people from the evils of PC. I feel safer already now that I can listen to early Skrewdriver and Anal Cunt AND call communist mass-murderers.
     
  13. Derek Danger

    Derek Danger Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    433

    1

    0

    Jan 29, 2010
     
    Oh, come on...
    If that isn't the most articulate expression of labour struggle the 20th century produced, I don't know what is. :lmao:
     
  14. Caps

    Caps Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    393

    1

    6

    Nov 3, 2010
     
    Why troll? The question has to be as old as 'why feed the troll?' Just to be clear, it's the fact that you dictate your views rather than offering them as genuine inquiry that I would consider your post trolling. Your points, in order:
    1. No, music doesn't convert or even remotely influence everyone. I was an left-wing before I ever cared about music. I was an anarchist before hearing any anarcho-punk bands. However, it can influence people too. More importantly, people of a particular political persuasion may well not want to listen to music that expresses a contrary political persuasion. That's for the individual to decide, no one has dictated anything on this site (though, strong opinion and recommendations have been put forward).
    2. True. But people may find themselves influenced by ideas or discover new ideas. If I read a marxist text, as I'm prone to do, I can take ideas and influences from it without becoming a full on marxist. However, I will never bother reading a right-wing book because it's likely to irritate or offend me while offering little or no value. That is the same with music. For my sins, I have listened to and enjoyed the first Superjoint Riutal album. However, I couldn't listen to the second one because I found the lyrics moronic and occasionally offensive/racist. But that's just me.
    3. Taste is subjective. Black Metal doesn't have to fascist to be good. Plenty of people genuinely enjoy anarchic black metal, you cannot dictate that it's 'no substitute', especially as I don't think most people consider a substitute. I don't give a shit, Black Metal is not to my tastes whatever it's message. It's about the only metal I can't stand.
    4. Seth Putnam was a bigoted fuck. He may have been anti-political correctness but I find most anti-pc people are anti-pc because they like to be insensitive shits. I don't think there's anything wrong with trying not to offend decent people. Besides he had links to white supremacist bands and I think he wrote terrible music. If you write music to piss people off then why does anyone care when they get pissed off and respond.
    5. Taste is subjective. A political message is clear. I'm not going to think someone's a moron for listening to music I don't care for. I might if they can appreciate dodgy political sentiments.
    6. We can quote whoever the fuck we want. As it is I don't care much for Crowley's philosophy. Of course art can have a morality. It can express a message. Not all music makes a statement but, if it does, I don't want to listen to stuff that directly contradicts my views. And neither do many other people. I think that's fair enough.
    7. Not exactly sure of your point here. Most non-fascists are on some level anti-fascists. But anti-fa and the like are not really puritans, there confronting a serious social ill. Ideas are not NEVER the problem. They can be a fundamental problem because they are often what drive people to act.
    8. Not all communists are Stalinist or even Leninist. I certainly don't listen to any bands that have odes to Mao or the like. If I listen to a communist band that express messages of social harmony or rebellion against oppression, I can appreciate it. I listen to Dead Kennedys, I don't agree with everything that Jello Biafra says. Like you've said I can analyse and criticise. With right-wing bands there's nothing to do there apart from to despair at what gormless fuckwits they are.
    9. Quoting Harry Potter? Really? I'm guessing the message is the world isn't black and white. What are you suggesting here? Was this just to make a nice round 10 point list?
    10. I'm 28. I find you pretty condescending. I don't think getting pissed off at racist music is childish or adolescent angst. It's pretty much common sense for anti-racists. Consider where you are. This is a colours-tied-to-the-mast anarchist website. It includes a plurality of views but those expressed are frequently anarchist and always left-leaning. You want to listen to whatever racist music to you because you can switch off from the message or it doesn't bother you, fine. Don't come on here patronising people because their political opinion means more to them. The idea that you grow out of the belief in making the world a better place winds me up something wild.
    11. (Though you didn't number it) Wagner's music, as far as I'm aware isn't thematically racist though he himself was a bigot. I'm not much into classical, I suppose I'm a little uncultured. People can make up their own minds.

    For fuck's sake, why did I even bother?...
     
  15. Caps

    Caps Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    393

    1

    6

    Nov 3, 2010
     
    Sorry, I'm unclear here. Read it as: If you want to listen to racist music because you can switch off from the message or it doesn't bother you, fine.
     
  16. punkmar77

    punkmar77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


    5,737

    203

    718

    Nov 13, 2009
     United States
    Because somebody had to, and a fine job you did, a troll is a troll is a troll of course of course
     
  17. Ninjawizard

    Ninjawizard Member New Member


    8

    0

    0

    Apr 30, 2012
     
    I called it my two cents. Just the thoughts on my mind.

    You will never read a right wing book? That is such an anti intellectual approach to life. Basically you are shutting yourself off from perspectives other than the ones you already see the world through. Doubtful you could even argue with someone from that perspective because you have no idea what they really believe. More likely your ideas of the thoughts and motivations of those on the right are based on caricatures about them from left wing sources. You exist in an echo chamber of ideas. No better than the people who only listen to Fox News or right wing talk radio.

    Well one could argue ideological rightness and wrongness is subjective since we are dealing with man made morality.

    He was a performance artist. He pissed off people for the amusement of their stupid anger. Most p.c. types are working overtime at being offended to try and prove to someone how political they are. It is I find often a substitute for political substance that they wish they had. And his supposed links to white supremecist bands seem to be mere rumors at this point (I think he may have ethnically Jewish).

    Yes we must self police our own sentiments. I mean we could wind up having the wrong thought once in a while.

    Art is about feelings. What the artist is feeling at a moment in time. It doesn't often fit an ideology ( Think f the racist sentiments of the band X in the song Los Angeles, The band members are expressly not racist). What we feel is often nt moral and not right politically. But in art all feelings are valid. So I think Art and morality are pretty far removed.

    The ones here who shut themselves off from music that disagrees with their politics are of a puritan mentality in my opinion. Puritans shut out thoughts that could cause sin.

    Back to your anti intellectual attitude here. Convincing yourself that only your end of the political spectrum is nuanced while the other is simplistic and only fits the mold your side portrays it as is delusional.

    The quote simply came to mind. I've been in a Harry Potter book reading and ninja movie watching mode lately. But if you consider the sort of black and white thinking that it takes to be an extremist for the right or the left (which I think a few here qualify as) than it is relevant.

    That's nice that you are 28. I said That many of you were likely teenagers. If you think I meant you specifically than you are pretty egotistical. I know plenty of people who have stayed political while losing the self righteous p.c. thought nazi aspect of their teenage personality. They can use reason to ideas like racism that don't stand up to logical criticism instead of telling people what shit they shouldn't listen to. They have enough critical thinking to take in all sorts of views and sift what makes sense from what doesn't. They aren't against ideas so much as always subjecting them to a thought process and offering better ideas that involve more depth of vision. It usually happens early to mid twenties so you may have missed the boat.

    I'm curious if anyone here would intentionally remove it from their collection

    Your response wasn't a total waste. It amused me at least.
     
  18. punkmar77

    punkmar77 Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member


    5,737

    203

    718

    Nov 13, 2009
     United States
    So you're here to tell us how juvenile and stunted we are for our radical beliefs? Because you are so much above that, correct? Although some of your views may be quasi valid, the fact that you look down your nose at those of us who are committed Anarchists and Anti Fascists because we might think the music of not only Skrewdriver. Wagner, and Anal Cunt are shit regardless of their reprehensible politics but then even more so because of them...says you ultimately have joined the discussion part of this forum for the sake of trolling it's members and pushing buttons...if this is the case you are not welcome here, we're not here for your trolling amusement.
     
  19. Caps

    Caps Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member


    393

    1

    6

    Nov 3, 2010
     
    These points alone evidence you as a troll.

    The first point is patronising, written only to antagonise. Considering I am one individual it would indeed be a little egotistical to consider your post to a collective to be singling me out. It is also obvious that I was merely illustrating that we are not all teenagers. The accusation that having a political opinion that is solid (though not immovable) is somehow immature (the point I was clearly responding to with my comment), is likewise simply inflammatory and intolerant and offers no valuable critical assessment.

    The second point shows you are here not enlighten either yourself or others but to simply entertain yourself. Your posts are condemnatory, not inquisitive. Hence, trolling.

    As an aside, and I'm opening this up (inspired by Ninjawizard, not merely directed at them), the idea that tolerance to different musical tastes is the same as tolerance to different political tastes relates to another thing that really gets my back up. I can't stand this nihilist-style-rooted moral and political relativism; this post-modern, semi-Foucauldian all things are equally valid bullshit. It's not the height of political or philosophical inquiry, it's the most base. It's the starting point of philosophical or political development, not the end. To take another cliché, if you're too open-minded your brain'll fall out.
     
  20. lynch

    lynch Member Forum Member


    12

    0

    0

    Mar 6, 2013
     
    no, I like alot of oi! bands. Not any blatantly racist stuff, but absolutely homophobic and violent. I do not believe in homophobia. however, I am aware others will call me on this. I could care less
     
Loading...