The Zeitgeist Movies, Movement and the Venus Project

Derek Danger · Jan 8, 2012

punkmar77 said:

Nobody ↑ :

almost every conspiracy theorist is out to line their pockets dis-informing the public, and spreading propaganda

Click to expand...

This is what I was agreeing about and couldn't have said it better myself butcher, you want to defend your buddy and make it seem as though I'm being hypocritical, fine. But don't start that same bullshit that our German friends were doing on here. I simply took issue with this post more than the others because Justin Maritoni is a good friend of mine and I happen to know that he lives, eats, and breathes anarchism every day, he has been living collectively for the last 6 years or so and believe me he is no Zeitgeister, however they have convinced him in part that some of their ideas are viable regardless of the many many times I have warned him about their hidden agendas. Still this is no reason to look down your nose at anyone and feel infinitely more enlightened on the subject. Save that shit.

Click to expand...

Butcher's doing nothing more for me than you are for your friend. In fact, he's doing much less. How is what you're doing any different? And since you're arguing this issue on the basis of personal information about Justin, how does that make me a jerk?

I took issue with what he said, and said so; I have no idea what kind of person he is and I don't much care. The fact that you tell me now that he's a great dude doesn't change the fact that I had no idea who he was to begin with and was far more interested in what he had written. Even if somebody I knew had written what he wrote, I would have made fun of them for it, because it struck me as odd.

Derek Danger · Jan 8, 2012

manvsmaritoni said:

Absolutely insane. How do you treat a child who does not yet understand how to speak his or her mind? Do you strike them by word or by hand? Is there a difference? Do you attack their very will to learn and grow by attempting to convince them they will never really understand anything and it is a waste of time to try? Or do you scoff and turn your head in superior fashion? Is there a difference? Such arrogance harms this world and any chance we have of attaining a healthy equilibrium with it and each other. In other words, GET OVER YOURSELF! I don't give a shit if some one hates zeitgeist or loves it blindingly as I once did or if they see eye to eye with me now and view the zeitgeist films as partially rational and partially insane. If you are prepared to make such a big deal out of a simple opinion and enter social warfare with everyone who disagrees with you, whether or not you are right or wrong, I see you as a threat to the future of our species. I see you as someone who desperately needs to be reminded we are all children, we are all weak sometimes, we all need loved ones to be strong for us sometimes and help us reach or remember a higher understanding. And sometimes we need to be strong for others and assist others find or re-discover their way. This principal is essential to a healthy community and certainly essential to any form of working anarchism! Will you understand me? Will you understand my intentions? Or will you disregard this and look for a weakness in my argument? Or perhaps a fundamental flaw in my identity with which you can exploit in order to further your own obvious superiority? If that is the case, please allow me to save us some time. I AM THE WORST ANARCHIST if that title can even be applied! I work and pay taxes. I pay rent. I drive a minivan. It doesn't run on good intentions. I pay for what it does run on. I buy food and alcohol and while I share these things with my loved ones I could send the money to starving people in the 3rd world and literally feed dozens of people every single day but I do not. I am a wretched creature of good intentions and ill action. I contribute to the demise of all that I love. I am a child. Please do not forget that no matter your achievements you are as well. You are no better than me and I am no better than you. If you cannot find common ground with someone you disagree with and treat them with respect, you cannot be an efficient diplomat. If you cannot be an efficient diplomat, you cannot assist in the construction of a bridge between a corrupt today and a desired tomorrow. That is what I believe anyway.

Click to expand...

wow man, I was just taking the piss, now I'm destroying the world? Well, I guess the species will have to do without my particular brand of sardonic intellectual parlour game, since I'm going to cause it to become extinct. Can anyone around here take a joke? I mean, I'm sorry to be a jerk but I was just pointing out a logic flaw I saw in your writing, not selling you out to the Feds or firebombing your house. Have a sense of perspective while you're envisioning this brave new world, eh?

manvsmaritoni · Jan 8, 2012

Forgive me Derek, I have never claimed I am not a drama queen from time to time.

butcher · Jan 8, 2012

punkmar77 said:

Nobody ↑ :

almost every conspiracy theorist is out to line their pockets dis-informing the public, and spreading propaganda

Click to expand...

This is what I was agreeing about and couldn't have said it better myself butcher, you want to defend your buddy and make it seem as though I'm being hypocritical, fine. But don't start that same bullshit that our German friends were doing on here. I simply took issue with this post more than the others because Justin Maritoni is a good friend of mine and I happen to know that he lives, eats, and breathes anarchism every day, he has been living collectively for the last 6 years or so and believe me he is no Zeitgeister, however they have convinced him in part that some of their ideas are viable regardless of the many many times I have warned him about their hidden agendas. Still this is no reason to look down your nose at anyone and feel infinitely more enlightened on the subject. Save that shit.

Click to expand...

I posted it largely cos its funny, but I guess the humour comes from yr response being more about derek and justin than about you believing we should treat zeitgeisters with 'civility and common discourse'. Besides:

Nobody ↑ :

It doesn't call for tolerance or unity it calls for civility and common discourse

Click to expand...

Nobody ↑ :

whether or not this is the case, anyone who talks shit instead of being friendly and suggesting better ideas is contributing to a wider divide between people who should be allies.

Click to expand...

'Allies' would suggest more than mere 'civility', it suggests tolerance, common causes and united fronts.

iflewoverthecuckoosnest · Jan 8, 2012

manvsmaritoni said:

Absolutely insane. How do you treat a child who does not yet understand how to speak his or her mind? Do you strike them by word or by hand? Is there a difference? Do you attack their very will to learn and grow by attempting to convince them they will never really understand anything and it is a waste of time to try? Or do you scoff and turn your head in superior fashion? Is there a difference? Such arrogance harms this world and any chance we have of attaining a healthy equilibrium with it and each other. In other words, GET OVER YOURSELF! I don't give a shit if some one hates zeitgeist or loves it blindingly as I once did or if they see eye to eye with me now and view the zeitgeist films as partially rational and partially insane. If you are prepared to make such a big deal out of a simple opinion and enter social warfare with everyone who disagrees with you, whether or not you are right or wrong, I see you as a threat to the future of our species. I see you as someone who desperately needs to be reminded we are all children, we are all weak sometimes, we all need loved ones to be strong for us sometimes and help us reach or remember a higher understanding. And sometimes we need to be strong for others and assist others find or re-discover their way. This principal is essential to a healthy community and certainly essential to any form of working anarchism! Will you understand me? Will you understand my intentions? Or will you disregard this and look for a weakness in my argument? Or perhaps a fundamental flaw in my identity with which you can exploit in order to further your own obvious superiority? If that is the case, please allow me to save us some time. I AM THE WORST ANARCHIST if that title can even be applied! I work and pay taxes. I pay rent. I drive a minivan. It doesn't run on good intentions. I pay for what it does run on. I buy food and alcohol and while I share these things with my loved ones I could send the money to starving people in the 3rd world and literally feed dozens of people every single day but I do not. I am a wretched creature of good intentions and ill action. I contribute to the demise of all that I love. I am a child. Please do not forget that no matter your achievements you are as well. You are no better than me and I am no better than you. If you cannot find common ground with someone you disagree with and treat them with respect, you cannot be an efficient diplomat. If you cannot be an efficient diplomat, you cannot assist in the construction of a bridge between a corrupt today and a desired tomorrow. That is what I believe anyway.

Click to expand...

Excellently put.

Derek Danger · Jan 9, 2012

manvsmaritoni said:

Forgive me Derek, I have never claimed I am not a drama queen from time to time.

Click to expand...

That's okay, I don't honestly have anything personal against you. I just like to challenge people when I don't agree with them, and I don't think there's anything wrong with it when they justify their position and we both move on. And here we are, you justified your position (loftily, but passionately) and I don't care what happened between my original post and your follow-up, because it was just terribly distracting.

Anarchist News

Log in / Register

Log in or Sign up

Political debates

The Zeitgeist Movies, Movement and the Venus Project

Derek Danger Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member

Derek Danger Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member

manvsmaritoni Active Member Forum Member

butcher Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member

iflewoverthecuckoosnest Active Member Forum Member

Derek Danger Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member

Venus Project (Zeitgeist) is sponsored by United Nations

Surreal Horror Art/Movies/Games?

Movies with anti-authoritarian/anarchist themes

short movies with message (not documentaries)

Documentaries or movies about Anarchist history or theorists?

What is Vivisection? (DVD, 35 movies)

any good political movies?

Independent Movies

Log in / Register

Useful Searches

The Zeitgeist Movies, Movement and the Venus Project

Derek Danger Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member

Derek Danger Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member

manvsmaritoni Active Member Forum Member

butcher Experienced Member Uploader Experienced member Forum Member

iflewoverthecuckoosnest Active Member Forum Member

Derek Danger Experienced Member Experienced member Forum Member