Occupy Wall St. (support/debate)

[Bakica]

ok, my question again why do they ALWAYS have to destroy small stores and buildings ?

[gobbledigooks]

It's not always stores and buildings, sometimes cars and especially those used by the cops are never deconstructed enough... never forget who gives the media reports - with not much regards to the realities...
(reuters pirated our little neighborhood fest and took it for the 99% - and we say:
WE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OCTOPUSOMETHING-HYPE and the reason why everything went well without much more than a few burnt sausages on the grill is:
THE COPS KEPT DISTANCE - JUST BECAUSE WE TEACHED THEM A THING OR TWO!
First hand information from rome: an office of the defence ministry was burned, several banks were attacked and set on fire, a column of cops on the march was ambushed somewhere near the vatican, the cops were driven off and their transporters destroyed.
Taking liberties is a creativ process... and sometimes one might even overdo it a bit, but even private stores and expensive private cars can be seen as symbols/means of the system and objects deserving to demonstrate a thing or two!

[nike]

(reuters pirated our little neighborhood fest and took it for the 99% - and we say:
WE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OCTOPUSOMETHING-HYPE and the reason why everything went well without much more than a few burnt sausages on the grill is:
THE COPS KEPT DISTANCE - JUST BECAUSE WE TEACHED THEM A THING OR TWO!

stoopid gobblez got it all wrong:
WE hijacked our own piece-full FnB-party on OUR non-cops street! reuters is always right - i read it in the news!
and i gootta idea:

[Bakica]

Taking liberties is a creativ process... and sometimes one might even overdo it a bit, but even private stores and expensive private cars can be seen as symbols/means of the system and objects deserving to demonstrate a thing or two!

That's really stupid. Destroying private property from other 'common' people is idiocy. Expensive cars ? Here, in Europe, we pay 2 to 4 times more then Americans. And I don't really give a fuck if someone has better car then me, really, it sound like we should destroy everything that has ever been made in capitalism. Or better, we should destroy everything expensive and leave only useless stuff ! Fighting capitalism means ( too me ! ) destroying everything that allows capitalism to live. and yet, we destroy every single thing that had potential to be beautiful ( reminds me of castle Versailles in France )

[nike]

Fighting capitalism means ( too me ! ) destroying everything that allows capitalism to live. and yet, we destroy every single thing that had potential to be beautiful

so may i ask:
why the us-warmachine is in iraque and afghanistan and throwing greedy looks to rogue-state iran, why the west supported and controlled the lybian rebels? what do cars actually do?

Destroying private property from other 'common' people

is a quite often used cliché of the liberal /corporate media - where (the fuck) is an office of the defence ministry and bank buildings private property?
bakica - being a bit informed doesn't hurt sometimes...

Or better, we should destroy everything expensive and leave only useless stuff

do i hear the middle class complaining - broke and angry... because everything is useless if the little status symbols are gone?

[Bakica]

why the us-warmachine is in iraque and afghanistan and throwing greedy looks to rogue-state iran, why the west supported and controlled the lybian rebels? what do cars actually do?

So that's the reason ? to just destroy others work ? Why don't we just go there and blow up every oil plants ?

is a quite often used cliché of the liberal /corporate media - where (the fuck) is an office of the defence ministry and bank buildings private property?
bakica - being a bit informed doesn't hurt sometimes...

Tell me, why did some lower/middle class British stand on police side in riots ? This isn't about being informed, this is pure logic. If you destroy someones home, do you expect him to follow you ?

[nike]

So that's the reason ? to just destroy others work ? Why don't we just go there and blow up every oil plants ?

"others work?" - do you think the workers at the assembly lines consider their wage slaving as something creative or culturally important like the little house in Versailles (which will become a community center some day)?
what kind of argument is this in times of the throwawaysociety?
others work is something meant to last longer than the time to the next model on sales...
so i guess you mean the money some citizen invested in his personal car to use it for his daily business - okay, in my eyes this would make an argument keeping me from burning private cars on the street - but i'm not everybody else and the predictable shortages of gas in the not-so-far futures...
blowing up oil plants is stupid, we need the stuff for ambulances, transports that can't be done otherwise than by car - so on the other hand: minimizing the private traffic on the streets seems quite reasonable facing the shortages of gas in the not-so-far-futures, but i guess the average citizen still needs some inspiration to realize this...

Tell me, why did some lower/middle class British stand on police side in riots ? This isn't about being informed, this is pure logic. If you destroy someones home, do you expect him to follow you ?

because they give a shit if a young father of three/four is shot by the cops on the street, for no other reason that the poor guy was black and someone made a mistake?
because they still think capitalism has it's advantages, because the sun and murdoch tells them so and they need some more cuts and austerity measurments to start thinking about how many homes were destroyed in the londons and elsewhere?
how many homes were actually destroyed? i only see the actual handful featured again and again - guess it's the failure of propaganda that endless repeatings about a side aspect doesn't makes numbers increase or a point... what was the meaning of the london riots?

[punkmar77]

#OccupySanDiego Gets Maced During Peaceful Protest

ok, my question again why do they ALWAYS have to destroy small stores and buildings ?

What the hell are you talking about?

[skulldrix]

OCCUPY PHILLY! DAMN STRAIGHT!



OccupyPhilly!

Occupy!

I'm gonna try to cut school to protests te-he!

[lil'apple]

o yeah, the next inspired writer from the freakshow: derrick jensen, promoting neotribalistic primitivism -
at least he studied "creative writing"... and the kiddies start even skipping school!

[QueerPunk]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oc ... sfeed=true

Occupy Wall Street: second senior NYPD officers faces investigation

Deputy inspector Johnny Cardona faces inquiry over alleged assault amid questions over NYPD's policing of protests

A second senior New York police officer is being formally investigated over allegations that he assaulted an Occupy Wall Street protester, raising fresh questions over the NYPD's deployment of supervisors on the front line in volatile public order situations.

The officer, who has been named in news reports as deputy inspector Johnny Cardona, was filmed on Friday grabbing the protester from behind, spinning him round and appearing to punch him in the face so hard that he fell to the ground.

The New York Civilian Complaint Review Board, an independent mayoral agency that deals with allegations of excessive or unnecessary force against police, is now investigating the incident, along with a number of other complaints over policing of the protests.

This is the second inquiry the board has launched in the last month into an alleged assault by a senior NYPD officer on Occupy Wall Street protesters. It is also investigating the use of pepper spray on peaceful female protesters by another deputy inspector, Anthony Bologna, who is also the subject of an internal NYPD inquiry.

Linda Sachs, a spokeswoman for the CCRB, said she could not comment on individual officers, but confirmed that the alleged assault was among several being investigated.

"We have several ongoing investigations involving police interactions with protesters. That includes events that occurred on Friday. Those events were videotaped," Sachs told the Guardian.

The victim of the alleged assault, Felix Rivera Pitre, has called for an investigation into Cardona's conduct. Over the weekend, new video was released of an earlier demonstration which appears to show him roughly handling a female protester from the same group that was later pepper-sprayed by Bologna.

Pitre's lawyer, Ron Kuby, who specialises in cases of alleged police brutality, has written to the New York district attorney, Cyrus Vance, demanding a "full, complete and lengthy investigation" into Friday's incident.

The NYPD has neither confirmed nor denied the identity of Cardona as the officer involved in both incidents. A senior police spokesman, Paul Browne, said Rivera was wanted for questioning for allegedly having provoked the confrontation by trying to elbow a police officer, which the officer deflected.

Browne said: "Others in the crowd jumped on the officer when he tried to apprehend the suspect. When the officer got to his feet, he was sprayed in the face with an unknown liquid coming from the suspect's direction."

Kuby has denied that his client was involved in any wrongdoing.

The new investigation has renewed doubts over the NYPD's use of supervisory officers – those wearing white shirts denoting the rank of lieutenant or above – on the ground during large protests.

One expert told the Guardian that the white-shirted officers were in the "hottest seat", even though they were likely to have less experience in public order situations than their rank-and-file colleagues.

Gene O'Donnell, a former NYPD office and prosecutor who is now a professor of law and police studies at John Jay College of Criminal Justice, said large protests were policed by a "hodgepodge" of different units. While each borough has a task force for rapid crowd control, other officers from non-specialist units and outer boroughs are also drafted in to bolster the numbers.

"There's friction between cops and their leaderships that gets exposed," said O'Donnell. "That's when you have the potential for over-reaction from people with white shirts. It's a very difficult place for a middle manager to be.

"They are supposed to be the ones giving the signals and setting the tone but that's the hottest seat. It doesn't get any hotter than being on the barricades for the police. The eyes of the media are on them. The cops are watching them. If you are in the middle you get blamed. They are not used to it and they are being judged by everyone."

O'Donnell said there was also an added pressure from politicians, who were more likely to criticise police for under-reacting than over-reacting. He said: "Police are in a difficult spot and it's inevitable they find themselves criticised. But things can spin out of control and then people say: 'Why weren't they in riot gear?'

"Over-arresting is not going to get them into trouble, but if they are under-arresting that will be politically problematic."

[QueerPunk]

[QueerPunk]

From the first day of Occupy Melbourne

[gobbledigooks]

Taking liberties is a creativ process... and sometimes one might even overdo it a bit, but even private stores and expensive private cars can be seen as symbols/means of the system and objects deserving to demonstrate a thing or two!

That's really stupid. Destroying private property from other 'common' people is idiocy. Expensive cars ? Here, in Europe, we pay 2 to 4 times more then Americans. And I don't really give a fuck if someone has better car then me, really, it sound like we should destroy everything that has ever been made in capitalism. Or better, we should destroy everything expensive and leave only useless stuff ! Fighting capitalism means ( too me ! ) destroying everything that allows capitalism to live. and yet, we destroy every single thing that had potential to be beautiful ( reminds me of castle Versailles in France )

Omigod, bakica, there isn't really much difference between your stressed mimicking and your redneck neighbors paroles from the regulars table? Some people really have problems seeing the wood because of all those trees... and liberties that could be taken, too bad they don't grow in the supermarkets.
Oh yes, it's all about music and making wild faces - mind me calling you a hippie from now on too?

[gobbledigooks]

And after derrick danger the rest of the lifestyle nutts won't be far, so I'm about to come up with the next business idea, massproduced for the teeming masses of the 99%:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_foil_hat[quote][/quote]
(and I heard it's good against EMP-induced desorientation too, all those ipods, notebooks and camera-handys couldn't be healthy...)

[sali(e)]

Governments of the World, unjustly allow the top economical 1% CLASS, Special Treatment. The rest of us suffer the effects of this special treatment, one way or another. The SYSTEM IS CORRUPT. Agree or not, this is a FACT. Stand up for your rights! ....or not. If I am not mistaken, this is a Civil Rights Movement.

Please be careful to not confuse the rich with the WEALTHY. If you are rich and feel you are being put to blame and feel defensive, please look at the big picture. If you are not at the top 1% Wealthiest PEOPLE of the World, you are a part of the rest of us, the 99%.

Yes, we are all to blame. One way or another, it has been us, the 99% that have put and keep the 1% where they are now. We shower them with our meager earnings, but a little, from each one of us, adds up to a FUCKING LOT OF CHANGE! GET IT? just a little from each, can add up to be a world wide change.

[nike]

i see you found out some things in the meantime, and there are less of those empty vacuumwallstreet slogans, nice, but sorry salie, you still don't get it:

Please be careful to not confuse the rich with the WEALTHY. If you are rich and feel you are being put to blame and feel defensive, please look at the big picture. If you are not at the top 1% Wealthiest PEOPLE of the World, you are a part of the rest of us, the 99%.

i just don't want to be part of the latest fakebooks hype, occupying the occupation, producing some little ridiculous content but masses of catchy and meaningless slogans, appealing to social envy and ignorance .
it isn't very constructive, if people have no idea what they are talking about, if they mention
"the tahir-spirit"
"the 99%"
"the 1%"
"injustice"
"suffering"
"corporate somethings/the corrupt system"
and all this other ignorant crap fished out of meaninglessness.

we aren't rich, but far from being envious too, because most of us choosed to be the way we are, a few just remained what they were before, working class spirit and the lack of social advancement or the opportunity to climb up. and maybe we are just too smart to believe in "the state allowing some myth to make another myth suffer" - since we heard about global monopol capitalism and figured out that the mass of people working for capitalism the way it's meant to work don't mean a thing, if capitalism is abolished. how?
simply by abolishing the practical part of the symbiosis between economics and society - the state.
you could claim to be the queen of the londons - but if nobodys left to follow your orders or enforce your claim to rule...
so what's the use of names lists and detailed accusations, wanna bring up some inquisition or the nutzis "jewish-plutocratic world conspiracy" - seems quite so and gets really annoying with the obvious lack of knowledge and orientation of this vaccuumwallstreet thingie. i wouldn't be surprised to see the idea coming up to assassinate this or that person featured in forbes or elsewhere - how about mass-executions of the whole forbes-shit-list? and this worst case just for a little bit of populism and braindead blablabla...
no, the general lack of knowledge of economics and politics, the obvious hype, including giving voice to lifestyle weirdos like derrick jensen and psycho-marx brother zizek to lure out the groupies and exited teeny boppers, thus siding with constitutional mc-marines and frustrated/broke middle class citizens...
no thanks.
leaderless with a security staff and a non-aggression dogma up to the point of denunciation and representative collaboration with the cops acting as the watchdogs of the system - NO THANKS!
keeping protesters from steppin' on the street and defending themselves against cop raids? NO THANKS!
helping some halfwits cultivating their ambitions just to get their 15 seconds in the media or to release their "them dumb masses against us" kiddo-nightmares? NO THANKS?
how much damaged does this hype do to the culture of resistance and opposition we need so badly?
isn't the lack of content and orientation quite appalling - compared with the multi-mass of catchy phrases, post-christian/pseudo-buddhist-one liners and witchhunt-clichès chasing phantom strawmen - just abused to cover up that hardly anyone has any answers? not to mention a clue or at least something to say...?
what do you actually know about the life circumstances average person living in cairo - or a homeless person in new york?
i bet not more than the everpresent corporate media promoting the "tahir-feeling", despite the fact that tahir place was a battlefield held by the people defending themselves without any regards to the media image.
crocodile tears about the homeless being chased around in the city come a bit late, it's decades...
so the spirit of "tel aviv" is quite more fitting:
young israelis doing the camping protest complaining the shortage of affordable appartments - while living in a state buying in "fitting" immigrants at every opportunity to make up numbers for the occupied areas - part of the story is really absurd. and of course, it's not the imperialist state put to blame, it's the rich, the economy, the n....s and the arabs too... not to mention the situation in occupygaza and occupywestbank:
where the other side of apartheid lives... mostly ignored or defamed and just not hip enough.
self-critics are fine, but without consequent action quite useless. being a hostage of monopol capitalism is one thing - ignoring the decades old network of grassroots- and affinity groups, just because they're not cool, is quite another.
continuing the myth of "we, the 99 %" is pure self-deceit and a promotion trick too, NO THANKS!
tears and only a little of everything/everybody isn't enough, becoming a professional isn't punk, but using ones brains makes a change, especially if one acts according to what he or she finds out - despite the everpresent easy digestible propaganda.

[butcher]

Governments of the World, unjustly allow the top economical 1% CLASS, Special Treatment. The rest of us suffer the effects of this special treatment, one way or another. The SYSTEM IS CORRUPT. Agree or not, this is a FACT. Stand up for your rights! ....or not. If I am not mistaken, this is a Civil Rights Movement.

The system is not corrupt, its designed to fuck us over.

Neoliberalism...is not really a regime of unregulated capital but rather a form of state regulation that best facilitates the global movements and profit of capital. Once again, in the era of neoliberalism, it might be helpful to think of the state as the executive committee assigned the task of guaranteeing the long term well-being of collective capital. The fundamental task of the neoliberal state, from this perspective, like all forms of the capitalist state, is to regulate capitalist development in the interest of global capital itself.

The 99%-1% is, at best, a pretty kitsch analogy for the class divisions in our society, and at worst a retardation of class analysis (ie through the focusing of angry on wealthy bastards rather than the process of wealth accumulation).
And the civil rights movement thing is probably, to a degree, right. And that is part of the problem. It is only through moving beyond requests for more rights under Capital that this movement can start to live up to its 'revolutionary' rhetoric.

Please be careful to not confuse the rich with the WEALTHY. If you are rich and feel you are being put to blame and feel defensive, please look at the big picture. If you are not at the top 1% Wealthiest PEOPLE of the World, you are a part of the rest of us, the 99%.

Who are you talking to? Which 'rich/wealthy' people are here being defensive?

Yes, we are all to blame. One way or another, it has been us, the 99% that have put and keep the 1% where they are now. We shower them with our meager earnings, but a little, from each one of us, adds up to a FUCKING LOT OF CHANGE! GET IT?

No, I really don't.

[sali(e)]

Okay nike. You don't want to be part... That's cool. FYI, I do not have a facebook account

Butcher, who am I talking to? You and nike apparently hahaha Just kidding.... I'm talking to anyone, just putting it out there. If you don't get it, well, ummm, okay...

[lil'apple]

and now lasses and lads, it's time for a break in this bit one sided but still interesting debate, the vid is a bit outdated by now, but the message's still valid - even if it's coming from boycott-breaker yello i-don't-really-care-but-have-a-lot-of-excuses-to-make-you-believe-something-else... have fun!


funny thing amongst the comments:

Times have changed. We're all members of the 99% now. Liberals, Conservatives, Libertarians
- go fuck yourselves. - robertemmet321 vor 2 Tagen

talk about some bad promotion of a vacuum running wild... but i guess the kid's will love it!