Kill Ur God.

[PunkMohawk]

Does anyone here actally believe that there is a god out there. Everything that i've read and searched havent added up

[crustybeckham]

I am pretty certain the Babylonians gods of Ur are already dead, but there could be sloppy and costumed black metal bands still worshipping them somewhere, who knows?

[Anarcho4Life]

Nope. I'm done with them. I wish the Norse gods were real, but no. I don't believe there are any gods of any kind out there.

[THEBLACKNOVA]

[shizyninja]

Carl Jung's views on God are worth considering,

"Because we cannot discover God's throne in the sky with a radiotelescope or establish (for certain) that a beloved father or mother is still about in a more or less corporeal form, people assume that such ideas are "not true." I would rather say that they are not "true" enough, for these are conceptions of a kind that have accompanied human life from prehistoric times, and that still break through into consciousness at any provocation."

"Modern man may assert that he can dispense with them, and he may bolster his opinion by insisting that there is no scientific evidence of their truth. But since we are dealing with invisible and unknowable things (for God is beyond human understanding, and there is no mean of proving immortality), why should we bother with evidence?"

[sheep6665]

[irony on:]
My Yeti friend told me yesterday, that Chupacabra said "there is no god" when she(he?it? whatever) was drunk, how can anyone prove that I haven't meet that Yeti? I have quite strong proof that there is no gods or something.
[/irony off]
The problem is, theory needs evidence. If you don't have the evidence, then it's impossible (with current state of knowledge). You can't prove that anything *don't exist*, so the existence of God is impossible with current state of knowledge. Such as existence of my Yeti friend.

[shizyninja]

true, but that is assuming everything lies within the scope of logic. And this is not true, there is no absolute.

[sheep6665]

If you want an example of confirmed theory look at physics. We've got Maxwell's classical electromagnetic theory, which was considered as 100% accurate, but then there came Planck(who didn't even believed that he was right), Rutherford, Bohr etc. and they have proved, that it isn't as good as all people thought. How did they do this? They have done a lot of experiments, mathematical model(s), and that was the reasonable basis for their theories.

Theists tend to use an "you can't prove that I'm wrong, so I'm right" argument(I've explained why it's a fail argument). Their doing it in illogical way other than those guys mentioned above.
However while I'm atheist(cause religion is illogical from my pov), I don't prohibit people to believe. If it's makes you happier, then why not?

[shizyninja]

All I'm saying is that there are things beyond the scope of reason. Spirituality is beyond the scope of science. Reason has it' limitations.

You obviously have some type of spiritual turmoil going on. Maybe "religion" doesn't suit your spiritual needs. Who says you have to believe in a god to be spiritual? Look at the Hindus. They're way fucking out there.

[Spike, one of many]

I think we focus too much on the physical properties of the universe. But what is matter? Matter is energy and energy is vibrations. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only transformed - hence, it is eternal. Consciousness is a form of energy.
The question for me is not whether god exists but what exactly is god? Is it a sentient being, conscious of itself as the church would have us believe, or is god simply this creative lifeforce, conscious only through its myriad of manifestations of which we are an inseparable part of? Like cogs in the cosmic wheel of life and death and rebirth. Eternal "souls" condemned to eternity?

Hey, Shizyninja, checked out Blubberisland. Haven't read all of it yet (short attention span), the words Gonzo and Fear & Loathing came to mind. Really dig your style.
err, It is by you, isn't it?

[shizyninja]

@Spike

I get what you mean. Do you analyze good in connection with physical world, a uniquely spiritual entity, or an invention of the human mind? And once we decide in which context to consider god, we must then wonder the nature of god itself, (is god a single entity? more of an essence? are there many gods? ect.) There is literally an infinite number of ways to interpret this. Then we we have the question of where do we as people fall into all this?

These are questions worth considering because our spiritual natures are undeniable. The sad part is that manipulating this longing to understand ourselves is an effective way of controlling minds. This makes an already difficult question even harder to approach. And really, it gives a beautiful aspect of humanity such a bad name. People are turned off to spirituality by all these politics and thus have a void within themselves.

When I was growing up, Jesus was undeniable in my house. As I got older, I began seeing more shortcomings about the Christian religion and was hit with guilt. Eventually I just got turned off by the whole thing and became less and less a Christian with moments of coming back. But too many things didn't make sense, "If God loves us, why does he let so much suffering exist?, If he's all knowing, then why did he test Adam and Eve if he knew they would fail?, Why does God tempt people with a life of sin if he already knows who is destined for hell and heaven?" The few times I did bring these questions up I'd get vague responses like, "God has a plan and works in mysterious ways." Years of that left me with an emptiness that eventually led to deciding that either God wasn't real or if he was, he was insane.

In the words of Moctezuma when he was burned at the stake and told by the priest to repent for his sins so that he may enter heaven, he responded, "If heaven is where Christians go when they die, then I'd rather go to hell."

Sometimes I felt that way. But I've met some really wise and genuinely peaceful Christians. Martin Luther King is my favorite philosopher. But the religion doesn't work for me and so I choose not to worship it. Since then it's been an ongoing search which has led me to some interesting ideas. I pick and choose which ones work for me and discard the rest.

Blubber Island is my book. You can see that I'm interested in this subject and I do address it in the book. Thanks for the Gonzo comparison. I'd cheer you a beer. Let me know what you think as you go along.

[Spike, one of many]

I believe creation and destruction are inseparable, the idea of a one-sided coin is absured. It's impossible! In order for life to exist, there must also be death. One must eat to survive. Even if you're vegetarian, a plant has to die. That's indisputable. That's not a "bad" thing. That's just the way it is. But what's important is that there has to be a balance.
Let's take capitalism as an example. It upsets this balance and that is bad. But who is it bad for? It's bad for life on earth. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. The universe doesn't care. Life will go on long after we're extinct.
So yes, good and evil are human concepts. And god and satan are just personifications of these concepts. So god, as the church portrays "him" is a fabrication. But it's also undeniable that we are a part of something much bigger. The true nature of this is just too "abstract" (for lack of a better word) for the human mind to comprehend. But it permeates everything and is also our true nature. It belongs in the spiritual realm but manifests itself in the physical realm. And I believe that this is what the ancients referred to as "God".
It's like a self-perpetuating, self-realizing, process, if that makes sense.

These are questions worth considering because our spiritual natures are undeniable. The sad part is that manipulating this longing to understand ourselves is an effective way of controlling minds. This makes an already difficult question even harder to approach. And really, it gives a beautiful aspect of humanity such a bad name. People are turned off to spirituality by all these politics and thus have a void within themselves.

Yes it's a pity that the church has been using this to control people, by putting the fear of hell into their minds.

Fuck it's not easy to try to conceptualize this shit. Let me just leave it at that for now.

I pick and choose which ones work for me and discard the rest.

For sure, do that. In the end it really makes no difference what you choose to believe. Do whatever works for you.

From your blog LOL. You should use this as your avatar.

PS. Psychedelics such as mescalin, ayahuasca, lsd, psilocybin etc. have all been used as "tools" to navigate these realms.
Be careful, though as they can really fuck with your mind when taken casually.

[shizyninja]

The Home Alone kid, a perfect example of what spiritual voids can lead to.

[Spike, one of many]

Just looked at the page explaining extraction of DXM (Over The CounterCulture). Interesting. Just thinking about chugging that bottle makes me cringe and build up saliva in my mouth. Ugh, that horrible raspberry-like taste...

[shizyninja]

Yeah those dudes are cool. I've been talking to the editor who is way out there. They're gonna do a review on Blubber Island. Hopefully I'll be contributing some stuff for the magazine. They're working on their 4th issue. Good stuff so far.

[everything]

In the words of Moctezuma when he was burned at the stake and told by the priest to repent for his sins so that he may enter heaven, he responded, "If heaven is where Christians go when they die, then I'd rather go to hell."

I'm amazed that after they'd murdered and persecuted so many people the Spanish still had the gall to talk about god and heaven. And ya know, it doesn't matter how much shit you've done, just that you say "sorry" right before you die. Probably not what Jesus meant.

Religion is too strict and too locked into dogma and self-righteousness to ever be attractive. How can someone say they are right about god when each religion represents a minority of the planet? Being so resolute in your faith is what led to things like the Spanish inquisition and the Catholic church. They twisted their beliefs. They saw it as anyone who is not Christian is evil, so you must be Christian! But that isn't a very Christian thing to do.... no worries, just ignore that part.

I'd read the Gospels and some of the old testament as a teenager and I found the old testament to be utterly worthless, but the Gospels were hopeful and provided a few good lessons. I think I'd always treated Jesus as a philosopher.

As far as God, I'm interested in what you guys are saying, Spike and Shizyninja. I may not be able to explain very well. But I do feel energy flow in my body and have had a couple experiences of hearing audible messages inside my head. Very strange.

But I can't really break from agnosticism, the idea that it's impossible to know whether or not God exists. If it does exist in a supernatural realm, then agnosticism is incredibly valid. How can we on Earth know about something in a supernatural plane? If it does not exist, then we cannot know about it because it does not exist, but the fact that so many belief still makes it a relevant topic worth exploring occasionally.

My beliefs are a constant question mark. I experience something, but I can never take it to be true.I have to keep questioning it because, as of today, there is no way to test it and really understand it.

[Spike, one of many]

In the words of Moctezuma when he was burned at the stake and told by the priest to repent for his sins so that he may enter heaven, he responded, "If heaven is where Christians go when they die, then I'd rather go to hell."

This is probably the ultimate expression of defiance in the face of the most agonizing death imaginable.

I remember when I was about 10 years old a friend had asked me, if I could have any question answered, what would it be? And I said to him, I would want to know what God is. Years later, I'd heard stories of people "seeing God" on LSD. They were generally considered crazy. Some more years had passed and at the age of about 21, I finally got the chance to try LSD. I was tripping with a punk buddy in the middle of Berlin. It was a very strange experience. I felt like I had just been transported to an alien world. I felt a timelessness and a feeling like there were no more boundaries. We both felt this. But I didn't have that full-on ultimate experience that I sought.

However, the second time I took acid, we'd been to the forest and about 8 hours into the trip I arrived back home, my roommate hadn't come home yet and I put on some music (Pink Floyd) and just relaxed.
Then all of a sudden I felt like "I" didn't exist anymore. "I" was everything and everything was "I". Like I had just become One with the Universe. These are really just words. The reality is, it's impossible to describe.
And I knew that that wish I had as a little boy had just been granted. I fully understood, without being able to rationalize it, what God is. I almost lost it at that point, but then I also "heard" or "felt" something like a soothing, female-like "voice" comforting me and saying :"this is good, don't fight it" and that brought me back from the brink of what would have become a certain bad trip.
I just enjoyed the rest of the trip, by that time I was already starting to come down.
I later read up about this type of experience and found out that it's known as an "ego-death" experience. There are different ways that this can come about. One's ego can dissolve, melt, shatter, etc.
That was the first of many such wonderful experiences and I tell you, it never gets "old".

Yea, the church took control of religion and twisted it to serve their own lust for power. They outlawed the gnostics because the gnostics believed that God can be found, not through the church and looking for "him" somewhere up in the clouds but by reaching within. If that idea would have caught on it would've made the church obsolete and powerless.

[Spike, one of many]

Oh, and I left out the most interesting part: while I was peaking, experiencing that oneness, I had the most uncanny feeling like I'd been there before. Like I'd always been in that state. It was the strangest sensation, similar to déjà vu.
As if somehow a part of me (genetically encoded into my DNA?) "remembered" my original state from before I was born. That was the real humdinger!

[everything]

So many people have said a lot of what you've said, Spike. Who woulda thought growing up that the place to find god is a hit of acid?

Myself, I'd like to try to McKenna-prescribed heroic dose of mushrooms.

I realize I'm not replying to you very much, I read it all, took it in, but I"ve really got no response except: awesome shit, I've heard a lot of people say that. Sounds like a fuckin triiiiiiiip

[Spike, one of many]

Haha, I'm glad you're open-minded.